Спонсор жизни форума https://www.bhperformance.kz
Группа: NISMO-CLUB
Сообщений: 85
Регистрация: 15.11.2011
Из: Комсомольск-на-Амуре
Пользователь №: 22918
Автомобиль: Nissan Skyline ER33
Доброго всем времени суток.Приобрёл я себе Nissan Consult мотивируя это двумя причинами: диагностировать свой двигатель и получить знания в области диагностики (ну уж очень мне это интересно).
Подключил через usb-переходник.
Вот собственно какие данные получил со своего RB25DE (Не NEO),стоит нулевик и прямоток:
Nissan Data Scan:
RMP 650-675 (Обороты)
Speed kph с этим всё понятно (скорость)
Water Temp 86 (Температура ОЖ)
Battery 11,4-12,7 (Заряд АКБ)
Timing 15 (Угол зажигания)
Injerctor 2,06-2,15 (Время открытия инжектора)
Duty cycle 1,16-1,23 (Что это за данные).
A/F Base 102 (Насколько я понял это разрежение во впускном тракте. если не прав поправте меня пжл!)
Trotthle 0,44-0,46 (Напряжение на ДПДЗ)
Air Flow 0,97-0,99 (MAF-Sensor)
O2 sensor 71-85 (Лямбда-зонд)
AAC 16 (Клапан ХХ)
Хотелось бы обсудить все эти данные,найти какие либо патологии (помимо низкого зарадя АКБ))),так же обсудить какие данные должен показывать мотор при его идеальной работе,с учётом что мотор СТОК без каких либо ништяков.Вообщем пишите кто что либо знает буду очень признателен и всем заранее спасибо!=)
Injector duty cycle что это
где и как взять текущее значение?
Добавлено через 8 часов 52 минуты
че никто не знает или не проснулись?
нет не это. надо знать текущее значение загрузки
Добавлено через 1 минуту
как все выгорит поделюсь идеей
Добавлено через 1 минуту
пожалуйста! очень надо!
пока не могу сказать!
просто ответьте на мои вопросы пожалуйста!
задача проста мне нужно определять загрузку форс в реальном времени, ну или знать колво импульсов при 100% загрузке
хотя можно чисто опытным путем измерить, но я боюсь ошибиться и дальше напортачить!
Добавлено через 2 минуты
изменения, имеется ввиду навалил и вижу что форсы работают там 80%, педаль отпустил там 40% такого плана.
95% при 1.5 кг на сток дудках? Чета дохрена, я на 1.6 что-то около 90% видел.
iskusnik, давай рассказывай уже че ты там придумал, че голову всем морочить, уверен что ничего нового и оригинального))
Форсунки управляются не количеством импульсов, а шириной импульса.
Я, было дело, цеплялся микроконтроллером (Teensy 3.0), напрямую на форсунку и мерил время открытия с точностью до 1 микросекунды, таким образом мы сразу имеем гиперточные обороты двигателя + гиперточное время открытия форсунок.
Vanek, спасибо за разъяснение
Забил в экселе, так и есть.
rotorB, ну говорю же потом все расскажу, потерпите. за информацию спасибо огромное
Добавлено через 3 минуты
без шнурка как снять значения?
Добавлено через 2 минуты
а ну да, можно с форсунки взять время открытия, rpm с датчика коленвала?
Injector duty cycle что это
by Jeff Lucius
The fuel injector duty cycle (IDC) is the percentage of time the injector is supplied with power. The time during which the injector is powered (or activated) is called the injector pulse width (IPW). During normal engine operation, the fuel injector fires once during the four strokes of the Otto cycle, which last for 2 revolutions of the engine. As an example, at 3000 rpm it takes 0.040 seconds or 40 milliseconds (ms) for the engine to complete 2 revolutions (3000 rpm divided by 60 equals 50 revs per second; invert to get 0.02 sec per rev or 0.04 second for 2 revs). At 6000 rpm it takes 20 ms for two revolutions. If a fuel injector is activated for 15 ms (the IPW) at 3000 rpm the duty cycle is 37.5% (15 ms/40 ms), or rpm times IPW divided by 1200 equals IDC in percent. If an injector is powered for 15 ms at 6000 rpm, then IDC is 75% (15 ms/20 ms). If you know the engine speed (rpm) and the IPW (dataloggers can provide this information), then it is easy to calculate the IDC.
NOTE: These calculators were originally developed many years ago in Internet Explorer.
For those of you with IE 7 (or beyond), you may get a warning about my web site using ActiveX controls. It does not. I do use JavaScript for my calculators. If you want the functionality of the calculators, allow «ActiveX» controls (see instructions by clicking on the IE bar above my web page, if it is there).
You can use the calculator below to determine injector duty cycle when engine speed and injector pulse width are known. You can enter numbers in the white boxes. The yellow box shows the result and is read-only. The «Reset fields» button writes the default values into the white boxes. Press «Calculate» to determine IDC. To change the value in a white box, first click in the box to give it the mouse/keyboard focus. Then change the number. Letters are not allowed; neither are negative values. Click outside the box or click the «Calculate» button to show the IDC. This simple calculator is illustrative but not very interesting. The calculators in the next section are much more useful.
Input parameters
| Air/Fuel Ratio Limits | |
| 6.0:1 9.0:1 11.5:1 12.5:1 13.2:1 14.7:1 15.5:1 16.2:1 18-22:1 | Rich run limit Low power, black smoke Rich best torque at WOT Safe best power at WOT Lean best torque at WOT Chemically ideal Lean light load, part throttle Best economy, part throttle Lean run limit |
As we modify our engines to produce more power, we install larger fuel injectors. The calculators and information below can assist in determining the correct injector size to reach your goals by presenting the required duty cycles for different sized injectors during various engine loads (mass air flow divided by engine speed). The boost value is the major factor determining engine load.
The engine control module (ECM) determines the injector pulse width using many engine sensors and a variety of control logic depending on engine operating conditions (see 2-fuelinjection.htm for more details). When engine power is more important than fuel economy, the most important input is the engine speed (from the crank angle sensor), the mass air-flow rate (from the volume air-flow, air-temperature, and air-pressure sensors), and the target air-fuel ratio (A/F; determined from tables programmed into the ECM).
When we install larger-than-stock fuel injectors, we usually install the ability to alter the air-fuel ratio using some sort of controller. While we would like to keep A/F near 12.5 for best power, the A/F usually must be lowered (the mixture richened) to reduce the tendency for detonation (knock). Quite often, this means A/F must be near 11 or a little lower. The table above shows typical A/F limits for different engine operating conditions. You can select an A/F in the input parameters below. While 12 is the default, I suggest lowering this to about 11 to simulate real fuel demands during WOT engine operation at high boost levels.
We need to know the A/F here because after the mass air flow is determined for a particular engine speed (see below) the A/F and gasoline density are used to determine the volume of fuel required. The average value for the density of gasoline is usually stated as 6 pounds per gallon, equivalent to 719 grams per liter. You should probably leave the gasoline density at the default value unless you know the value for the gasoline you use or just want to experiment. Knowing the required fuel volume and the maximum amount of fuel that the given number of injectors of the selected flow rate can flow if open constantly, the required injector duty cycle can be calculated.
While the ECM uses measured air flow, we will have to estimate air flow at various engine speeds. To do this we must know the volumetric efficiency of the engine during wide-open throttle (WOT) operation. Volumetric efficiency (VE) is the ratio of volume of air entering the air filter(s) to the engine displacement for each Otto cycle. For forced induction engines, VE can easily exceed 100%. Again, because we cannot measure air flow here, I’ll use a concept I call natural capacity (NC) and the pressure ratio to determine the air flow. Natural capacity is the percentage of cylinder swept area (or the engine displacement when considering all cylinders) that is replaced with fresh air-fuel charge, regardless of the air density (boost or vacuum), during the Otto cycle. The NC cannot be less than 0 nor more than 1.0 (100%). After all, you can only fill a cylinder completely and that’s it. Pressure ratio is the absolute pressure in the plenum (ambient air pressure plus boost pressure) divided by the ambient air pressure (barometric pressure). Volumetric efficiency, then, is estimated as the natural capacity times the pressure ratio.
The set of default natural capacities in the calculator below are ones I have found to be reasonable for stock and for modified engines. The values can be changed by clicking the mouse inside one of the white boxes and modifying the value to be from 0.0 to 1.0. Click «Re-calculate» to update the IDC tables. You can set all the «Modified» natural capacities to 1.0 (100%) to simulate a perfect flowing engine (even if nearly impossible to attain); this would be the very maximum amount of air an engine could flow for a given pressure ratio and engine speed. Clicking the «Reset fields» button restores the default NC values; but the «Re-Calculate» button must be clicked to change the IDC tables.
IDC for a single user-selected injector size
As in the first little calculator above, the yellow boxes are for display only and cannot be edited. Change values in the white boxes above and click the «Calculate» button to update these tables. Using the radio buttons, you can select between the natural capacities for a stock engine or for a modifed engine.
Many manufacturers recommend that IDC does not remain above 85-90% for extended periods. Some injectors may actually flow less above 95% IDC than below that value. Of course, if the listed IDC is greater than 100%, the fuel injector is inadequate for the application.
IDC for a several pre-selected injector sizes
As above, the yellow boxes are for display only and cannot be edited. Change values in the white boxes above and click the «Calculate» button to update these tables. Only natural capacities for modified engines are used here. To change these, change values in the Natural Capacities form above and press the «Re-calculate» button. The factory fuel injectors are rated at 360 cc/min. DSM (Eclipse, Laser, and Talon) turbo models had 450 cc/min injectors. The new Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII has fuel injectors that are reported to flow about 580 cc/min and also have the dual port pintle opening. The aftermarket 660 cc/min and larger injectors are popular for the highest output 3000GT/Stealth engines.
Injector FAQ
To calculate the injector size for a particular application:
| Injector Flow Rate (lb/hr) = | Engine HP(1) x BSFC(2) Number of Injectors x Injector duty cycle(3) |
| Injector Flow Rate (cc/min) = | Engine HP(1) x BSFC(2) x 10.5 Number of Injectors x Injector duty cycle(3) |
This worksheet can do the calculations for you:
To calculate the horsepower capacity of injectors based on their flow rating:
| Fuel injectors max HP (lb/hr)* = |
| Fuel injectors max HP (cc/min)* = |
| Fuel injectors flow (lb/hr)* = |
| Fuel injector flow (cc/min)* = |
| *NOTE: This formula take into account a properly functioning fuel delivery system. Damaged components, clogged or modified injectors, insufficient fuel delivery, or other fuel system problems that alter the injector flow rates will render this formula useless! |
Fuel Injector Flow Calculator
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Understanding Injector Duty Cycle
RomRaider’s IDC parameter has caused a lot of confusion. To clear it up, let’s start with some fundamentals:
RPM / 60 = revs per second RPM / 120 = cycles per second (by “cycle” I mean four strokes) 120 / RPM = seconds per cycle = maximum time available for injectors to squirt
“Fuel injector duty cycle” is the actual time the injector is open, divided by the total time available. So:
IDC = IPW / (120 / RPM)
That can be rewritten as:
IDC = IPW * (RPM / 120)
…and to get an result of “90 percent” instead of “.90” you add a couple zeros:
IDC = RPM * IPW / 1200
If you look in RomRaider’s logger.xml you’ll find that formula.
7000 RPM * 17ms / 1200 = 99 percent IDC
It’s not entirely clear how RomRaider produces numbers like 120%. Apparently the IDC parameter includes the injector latency, so it’s actually a bit larger than the amount of time that the injector is squirting (since it takes a millisecond or so for the injector to transition from closed to open). However that only explains how you can get up to about 105.8 IDC (1 / 17 = 0.058).
It may also be that the injector pulse width used for the IDC calculation is how long the ECU thinks the injector should be held open to squirt enough fuel to get the desired AFR. This calculation is done without taking RPM into account, so the desired IPW may not be achievable. When this happens, the logger may report an IDC of as much as 120%. The ECU cannot hold the injector open for 20 milliseconds for a 17-millisecond cycle (not without time travel!) so as this point your mixture is probably going lean.
